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Old 09-16-2011, 07:41 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Live in Ontario? Want to paintball for free?

Ok guys so here it goes, it's like this. I thought free paintball was going to be an easy sell, however it seems a bit tougher then I anticipated. I thought everyone dreamed of being able to play big game paintball for free, but in the last month of canvassing local players to help out, I've only had one person respond. So, I'm opening the door up to some players who may not be so local, or a local who I don't know personally.

I have positions available on the reffing crew for the Day of the Dead big game at Flagswipe paintball. I need about 5 guys to help out with the day of reffing. Flagswipe compensates us generously by offering to pay for entrance and paint to other fields big games to represent Flagswipe. You ref a game at Flagswipe you get to play another big game for free. Very Simple.

As for the free game we are probably looking to do a winter big game at Flagraiders, in late November early December.

This is just a one shot deal for now but those interested in joining the team for the 2012 season, we can discuss in person.

Looking for mature people who are serious about reffing. Transportation can/may be arranged if you are not so mobile, depending on your location and proximity to other members.

So if your interested give me a shout. We'd like to hear from you.

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Old 09-16-2011, 08:19 PM   #2 (permalink)
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While I get what your trying to achieve and the offer is generous...I am going to say something that your probably not going to want to hear. That being said, I have a valid reason for it.

It is not really a good idea to offer a free game as compensation for reffing at your field.

Here is why.
1) Refs should be paid professionals first and players second. This ensures that the refs take their jobs as seriously as possible. It makes sure the ref is there to ref and not just mark time to get some free paint/entry/whatever.

2) With the lack of over-site on the refs at a big game, there is no real intensive for the refs to actually perform their job... As long as they are there and look the part, you are on the hook to give them the compensation regardless of their performance. And it does not take much or long for an in attentive ref to ruin the day of a lot of innocent players...

Because of this, I would highly recommend PAYING your refs a fair wage, building a reffing team that is properly trained and then building your fields reputation at your field with those refs before sending a team out to other events.

This will be a larger investment on your field but will eventually yield higher returns.

That being said, I wish you, your field and the game the best of luck! I really do hope you have a fun day!!
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Old 09-16-2011, 10:39 PM   #3 (permalink)
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ghbI appreciate the concern but I think your confusing my situation with one you are imagining with the information I have provided thus far.
Flagswipe does not need to build a reputation, they are one of the longest running fields on Ontario. I do not own this field I'm the leader of the sponsored reffing crew who has been doing the job for about the past 4 years.

1st
At Flagswipe, there is no lack of oversight for the refs. All refs are issued a radio, and are supervised by myself and others as I walk from flagstation to flagstaion to flagstation checking in on them all day. They way it's setup, I can make a round of the whole field in less than 20 mins just walking casual. From the staging alone I have an unobstructed view of about half the field due to the elevation, the other half is a short 2min walk to the treeline. Not to mention the other experienced members of the crew will be on the field all day as well.

2nd
Refs should be paid professionals, I agree. And in a sense they are being paid, just not in cash. However, there is no contract and I don't have to compensate anyone who I don't think deserves it. Incentive enough? For our situation I have no worries as any newcomers would likely be used to round out the crew, performing as insertion refs or flag watchers.


While I understand where you coming from, I'm going to have to chalk this up to you not being from where I am. I've been to almost all the big fields in Ontario, and this arrangement is what I would call a typical one.

Reffing staff for big events is hardly ever all paid staff . Usually a field will have a few refs that are full time paid staff, the rest will be from sponsored teams fulfilling their sponsorship duty. A lot of the big fields have agreements which offer each others sponsored teams discounts for attending events.

That being said, most fields assign this duty to their sponsored speedball teams and in my experience they make terrible big game refs for exactly the reasons you stated. They are only there to get free paint, and don't even usually want to be in the woods, let alone on a Sunday morning.

Flagswipe however was prudent enough to recognize our group who just enjoy being on the field in any capacity. We are dedicated to making every event as great as it can be, as it is not just Flagswipes reputation at stake but our own as well. We do it because we enjoy it plain and simple, Flagswipe understands that.


It comes down to this, if you owned your own business. Who would you rather have working for you? The guy there for the paycheck, or the guy who is there paycheck or not because he is a loyal friend and loves his work? Sounds simple to me.

And lastly I have done it this way for the past 4 years for our charity events. These are Canadian Paintballers we are talking about here, in the U.S. sure I'd be worried, mostly of lawyers and liability. Here we're all in it together, for the good of the sport.

Last edited by Vapor; 09-16-2011 at 10:51 PM.
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Old 09-17-2011, 12:39 AM   #4 (permalink)
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It's not my field. You do what you would like with it. I am just stating a bit of advice I have learned from managing a number of businesses.

Again I wish you, yourteam and your field the beat of luck and a successful game. I hope you find enough refs that fit your criteria. I am not trying to be a debbie downer , I really do want all the fields in Ontario to do the best they can.

So once again best of luck. Good game and get some!
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Old 09-29-2011, 04:55 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stilgar View Post
It's not my field. You do what you would like with it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vapor View Post
I do not own this field I'm the leader of the sponsored reffing crew who has been doing the job for about the past 4 years.
It's not my field either. You guys seem to miss that fact. Don't come down on me Debbie.

I ask you this then. What is a typical days pay for a ref at a castle conquest event, or living legends? A typical big game here in Ontario costs $150 when you combine paint and entry, which is what we are payed. Do your refs make $150 a day?

Last edited by Vapor; 09-29-2011 at 05:05 PM.
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Old 09-29-2011, 07:07 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I think you missed that Stilgar and CJOttawa are in Ontario as well...
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Old 09-29-2011, 10:23 PM   #7 (permalink)
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even if you pay someone to Ref, they can still take advantage if there isnt the proper checks and oversight.
If i am reading this correctly Vapor, you have a referee crew and you are trying to increase your numbers?
how any games a year does your crew ref ?
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Old 10-03-2011, 01:06 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Just some input from someone who has reffed tournament speedball a good few times.

Reffing large events in the US you can make $100 to $150 a day depending on what fields your reffing. You get shot up a lot more and when you do make any call the players bitch and complain non stop no matter how the calls go. No matter the location be it PSP, NPPL or Millennium Series tournament players will argue a call saying it was unfair I feel that in big games you would have many less issues since those playing do not feel as entitled since they bought a marker, gear and expect the world because they have done so.

If I had been up in Ontario already I would have certainly helped out at Flagswipe and I do see the issues with what has been brought up from others. The point which is being missed I guess is that the reffs would still be getting paid it just would be in a roundabout way with having event fees and paint covered for a future event.

The point of saying that this system will cause lazy/bad refs I yet again bring up tournament speedball refs and the fact that many of them are getting paid $100 - $150 a day and still some of those folks certainly are lazy or bad refs.

It honestly just depends on the persons experience with reffing and to have someone who has not been a player who doesn't know how a player is trying to cheat or get one up on the refs it certainly doesn't help.
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Old 10-06-2011, 08:27 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Geez. If you've ever done any hiring at all, it comes down to the person who picks the people who work for them and the people they hire. Paying them with cash money or free play is the same.
Pick your people properly first.
Compensation is an agreement between the field and the refs.
I disagree with CJ and Stilgar completely.
It all comes down to the hiring process. Money is a poor incentive for performance. You need to hire refs who have a passion for the sport, and an eye for how the game works.
Some fields end up with some questionable staff members due to the fact that the pool of which you draw potential referees from is limited in talent, but overflowing with attitude and entitlement.
I think you should reread the original post. Looking for referees to help out with a big game. Not criticism on the fields business practices. Geez.
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