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CCI Home of the Phantom Pump Gun

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Old 01-11-2019, 03:27 AM   #81 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Bang*Bang** View Post
Ok. This might be a one shot deal. I get the sense Mike is a smart business man, but he also seems protective of his brand.

I'm just going to throw this out there:
Who actually knows how to assess CCI's IP and manufacturing assets in the context of a business offer?

If Mike had someone lined up to buy whatever it was he was willing to sell, it's not unreasonable to assume he may accept an offer if it works for him. Add to the fact, if he's just going to close up shop, where is his retiring bonus?

We have 4 months. But more like 2, because he seems like the type to not bite on the first cast.

Basically, I'm saying let's organise and make this happen. Or die putting the pieces together for someone that can make it happen.

For the Phantom Saint!
I'd be willing to contribute to some kind of legacy LLC or similar group that would serve the purpose of keeping all the parts available for purchase. Ideally everything required to build a new gun from scratch.
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Old 01-11-2019, 11:17 AM   #82 (permalink)
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How can you buy CCI's manufacturing assets when there isn't much? My understanding is that CCI outsources the machining in the same building.
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Old 01-11-2019, 01:20 PM   #83 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Bleeds View Post
How can you buy CCI's manufacturing assets when there isn't much? My understanding is that CCI outsources the machining in the same building.
I may be over simplifying, but what I imagine is simply outsourcing all the machining, and having the parts shipped to a central location. From there parts will be shipped to online customers.
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Old 01-11-2019, 02:31 PM   #84 (permalink)
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Anyone who takes on the endeavor of CCI not only needs to find a way to produce the parts cheaper, but also needs to keep the innovation going.
The Phantom is great because it's unchanged in 30 years, but it also sucks that it hasn't changed in 30 years.

I respect Mike for not putting ASP and Rainman out of business by stealing their ideas, but having to go through so many hoops for mods kept me from getting a Phantom for a decade. The Phantom needs more refinement. It should be awesome out of the box like these new Planet Eclipse markers.
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Old 01-11-2019, 02:54 PM   #85 (permalink)
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Anyone who takes on the endeavor of CCI not only needs to find a way to produce the parts cheaper, but also needs to keep the innovation going.
The Phantom is great because it's unchanged in 30 years, but it also sucks that it hasn't changed in 30 years.

I respect Mike for not putting ASP and Rainman out of business by stealing their ideas, but having to go through so many hoops for mods kept me from getting a Phantom for a decade. The Phantom needs more refinement. It should be awesome out of the box like these new Planet Eclipse markers.
Honestly, I'll be glad when Mike closes shop. He's been at it hard for over 25 years. Perfected his vision for a great Nelson clone. To buy what is left of CCI just to revamp the gun doesn't seem quite right to me. At that point you are just using the name to peddle something else.

Also, there is a reason why he deciding to close to shop. There's so many out there in circulation now, he had a hard time selling new ones at the clip he was years prior. I would take that as a sign.
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Old 01-11-2019, 03:25 PM   #86 (permalink)
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Honestly the only possible profitable areas are selling parts for existing markers and building custom phantoms. Since all of the manufacturing is outsourced selling parts is easier but has an initial investment to build the parts. Building custom markers is more difficult and requires a lot more parts to be manufactured.
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Old 01-11-2019, 03:39 PM   #87 (permalink)
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I would love to see some custom Phantom bodies like a Karta Mag style body for the Phantom, and Slider frames like RTR did back in the day. One piece body and stick feed with crazy milling super polished or a sleeved stainless inner body highly polished to reduce internal drag. Wish I had the knowledge to make some cool custom stuff for the Phantom it's an amazing platform. I think with Mike stepping down it will give way to a lot more custom stuff. I'm excited to see whats next for the Phantom platform. I think the reason you don't see them is out of respect for Mike and his creation.
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Old 01-11-2019, 03:48 PM   #88 (permalink)
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With all the 3d printing stuff coming out all the time it would be hard to stay afloat after a short time. I love a good milled aluminum part but printing is much cheaper.
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Old 01-11-2019, 03:56 PM   #89 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by frd333do33 View Post
Anyone who takes on the endeavor of CCI not only needs to find a way to produce the parts cheaper, but also needs to keep the innovation going.
The Phantom is great because it's unchanged in 30 years, but it also sucks that it hasn't changed in 30 years.

I respect Mike for not putting ASP and Rainman out of business by stealing their ideas, but having to go through so many hoops for mods kept me from getting a Phantom for a decade. The Phantom needs more refinement. It should be awesome out of the box like these new Planet Eclipse markers.
I don't see a need to bring the price down - basic models for just over $200 is hard to beat. Phantoms are mid-range guns with excellent QC and are Made In America. Making them cheaper would mean making them in China and we all know how that would go.
The aftermarket mods could be added to new guns pretty easily with licensing and development agreements. I know that if I was making a mod for a gun and the manufacturer wanted to send a few bucks my way based on sales I'd jump at the chance. That way everyone could get their beak wet and it would help make CCI a one-stop shop.
If there was going to be a new owner I'd like to see the basic gun remain unchanged but have a custom shop that would turn out limited-run trigger frames, pumps, air set-ups, etc. Maybe even do short-term partnerships with different builders. Bore-drop mag-fed Phantom? Factory Dukie levers? Micro pistols? Plow handle grip frame? With the size of the modding community you'd never run out of new ideas to try and you could still keep the base marker true to its roots.
If I didn't love my job I'd be pounding on Mike's door right now.
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Old 01-11-2019, 04:20 PM   #90 (permalink)
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There is literally nothing wrong with a Phantom out of the box. They shoot incredibly well with very little tuning required. In fact they've done that longer than Planet Eclipse has been around...

The Nelson valve based paintball marker doesn't have a lot to it, the original bolt action Nel-Spots are about as simple as it gets. The Phantom is certainly a proven refinement. For whatever reason, CCI has outlived any number of competitors from the early age of Paintball. Line SI, Carter, Lapco, etc. Mike found the winning formula and ran with it.

I don't know how much more improvement/refinement you can really get from the Nelson system. The RTR Gargoyle is probably the best example, but look at what they cost in comparison, and what they sell for now even 10+ years from their introduction. How many actually made it out into the wild? (less than 100 based on the Roll Call thread in RTR section). There's... 30 thousand? Phantoms are out there.

I have several RTR components and take this in the nicest way possible: they're over engineered and lovely in every way, I doubt I'll ever part with the phantom on which I have the RTR trigger group. (I have too many "wish I hadn't sold it" markers and recognize just how special these are).

Slug style bodies have been done, any number of feed styles, air source mounting locations, etc. Aside from the AutoMag (gasp, another single tube marker!?) I don't think there is another ecosystem with almost unlimited options for personalization.

I definitely think there's a lot of room still for people to explore the aftermarket for customizing Phantoms. 3d Printing is already showing some fun possibilities, I hope to explore that area myself in the near future.
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