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Old 02-19-2011, 05:00 PM   #1 (permalink)
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Tustin, Ca,

T2 sweetspotting at low pressure

I just received my new T2 a couple of weeks ago and have been testing it in the back yard to make sure that its tuned before I head out to play tomorrow. I'm not sure that this is a problem, but my reg pressure is sweet spotting at only about 265 psi, with the IVG turned in 3.5 turns to get 290 - 300 fps. I cannot get over 300 fps, other than an occasional spike. (BTW, this is where my reg was set when I took it out of the box)
Everything that I'm reading states that the typical T2 reg operates optimally at over 300 psi (even up to 350psi), however when I set the reg at 300 or anything above, fps starts dropping off dramatically. At anything north of 325, there's barely enough air to push the ball out of the barrel. I talked to Rod last week (awesome help and service) and he sent me new reg internals, a new hammer and o rings, but after switching these out, its exactly the same thing. I have inspected the valve, ensured that the bottom tube and hammer is clean, etc. and have done a complete disassembly, cleaning and relubing of the marker and its the same performance.
For point of reference, the reg adjustment screw is flush with the bottom of the reg body.
Maybe I shouldn't complain, as I have no problem getting consistency at 280 - 285 fps at this lower pressure, but am wondering why my marker settings seem to be so different from what I'm seeing in all of the other posts and the Pumpenstein manual.
I have done all of my testing with new Victory paint (running at .684 ave) and 1 month old Marbalizers (.684 - .685 ave) through my stock barrel and my Deadlywind - both with .684 sizers.
The only thing that I have done that I'm thinking could have a slight impact is polishing the hammer lightly on my bench polishing wheel with jeweler's rouge (per TF's recommendation), but I cleaned it thoroughly with alcohol and dried it before putting it back in the marker.
I have a lot of experience working on all of my pump autocockers, but this one is stumping me.
Any experienced wisdom or suggestions would be appreciated.
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Old 02-19-2011, 05:29 PM   #2 (permalink)
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That is an interesting issue. I seem to remember someone in the CCM section having a similar issue and then a few months later he was able to sweetspot it at the higher pressure.

It sounds like you know what you are doing. Search and see if you can find the old thread on a similar topic...I'll do the same.
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Old 02-19-2011, 05:46 PM   #3 (permalink)
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This is the only reference I can find. I thought there was a whole thread about it. Maybe you can PM Riddler.
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Old 02-19-2011, 06:27 PM   #4 (permalink)
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Tustin, Ca,

Thanks for the help. Maybe the regulator spring just needs to break in. The reg has the newer blue spring in it, which is supposed to be stiffer than the older one. I'm positive that the reg is set at its most efficient position, so I'm going to roll with it tomorrow and see where its at after a full day of play.
I just put a nice even coat of Dow 33 on the piston and o-ring and left everything else inside the reg clean and dry. I fired off about 25 shots over the chrono and it's now shooting at 294 - 300 fps with the IVG at 3.5 turns in (I get 280 average at 3.25 turns in). Maybe after the reg breaks in over a few games, I will have to gradually adjust it up to 300 psi.
In the meantime, I guess I shouldn't gripe about getting to 300 fps at under 300psi - I just wish that I was certain as to exactly why.

Last edited by mataleao; 02-19-2011 at 09:56 PM.
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Old 02-20-2011, 04:11 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Any chance that your reg tester gauge is reading about 30-40
Psi low?
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Old 02-20-2011, 09:22 PM   #6 (permalink)
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Tustin, Ca,

It crossed my mind, but if the gauge was reading low, I would think that the adjustment screw would be a few turns in, vs. flush with the bottom of the reg body as it is now.
I played 16 games today and put about 1/2 case through it and definitely like how the marker performed. I just got home, so I'm going to re-chrono it and check the pressure tonight to see if anything changed.
Regardless (per your suggestion), I'm going to pick up a new gauge for my reg tester tomorrow just to make sure that its reading accurately.
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Old 02-21-2011, 10:36 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Actually I've pretty much set almost all my regs around 350 give or take 20, and never found an issue. (I usually aim for 340 to be exact)

Make sure it's clean and use good LUBE!!!

Our whole team that uses T2's were set up that way. The other thing to watch out for is your HPA tanks now-a-days. They all have built in regulators and most are set to out put different pressures. Most tanks are set up for 600 psi or something like that, but if you happened to buy a low pressure tank set at 300 or 350 psi, and you have your reg at 340, it just won't work well.

Just some thoughts.
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Last edited by Painthappy; 02-21-2011 at 10:44 AM.
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Old 03-20-2011, 01:22 PM   #8 (permalink)
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Tustin, Ca,

OK, here's a quick update in case anyone else ever experiences the same issue. I've now taken the T2 out for 4 full days of play and it shoots like a dream, staying consistently between 280 - 290.
It was a very simple fix. All I had to do was slightly stretch the main spring - meaning that I very gently pulled it out from both ends, effectively making it approximately 3/16" longer. It does not effect the softness of the spring, and the spring has not returned to its "memorized" length. It worked like a charm:
I was originally struggling to get the marker to 280fps or above at 300 psi, and it would drop off dramatically at anything above that. I had to turn the IVG in 6+ turns just to get it up to 270.
Now, the IVG is 3 turns in from flush at 305psi and I haven't had to touch it through 2 1/2 cases of paint.
My simple theory is:
The main spring is so soft on the T2 (not to mention the delicate balance between the main spring and valve spring), that the most subtle changes can make a huge difference. Since a spring is "only a spring" there are practical limits to how identically every one of the same size/gauge can me manufactured. It stands to reason that there would be slight differences here and there amongst the thousands that CCM receives to build their products. I have a lot of faith that CCM has tight controls on the consistency of the tubing that they use and the components of the markers that are milled in house. The one component that would be easily variable would be the springs. This would be why every so often, someone runs into this issue.
Making this small adjustment worked magic in my case.

Last edited by mataleao; 03-20-2011 at 01:43 PM.
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Old 03-20-2011, 09:18 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I have had a S6.5 and a T2 and I have trouble keeping them BELOW 300. My IVG is currently at 1/2 turn in from flush and I am shooting 290.

My reg is set at 300 PSI.

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Old 03-20-2011, 10:37 PM   #10 (permalink)
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Tustin, Ca,

So you have the opposite problem, but I'm certain that it is the same diagnosis: minor fluctuations between main springs.
Another way that I proved to myself that the main spring was the issue was by switching the main spring from my newer T2 into the one that I was having issues with: Voila! Resolved.
For experimentation, I also dropped a slightly heavier spring in that I had in my tool box (I save everything) and the fps went way over 300 (and the pump stroke was stiffer).
You could argue that another remedy could be to keep the main spring as is and try a slightly lighter valve spring, but that's way too much headache...
I would bet money that if you ordered a couple of new main springs, you would see a difference between them. Another interesting option would be to see what would happen if you trimmed 1 coil. I'll bet your fps would fall right in line with no negative performance issue.
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