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Old 06-08-2017, 11:29 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Macro fittings not fitting?

All,

Am working on several builds, one of which is making use of three brand-new polished black CCM fittings, recently ordered direct and received, and attempted to install tonight.

The fittings look amazing, and appear to be flawless in every respect. Major kudos there.

However, when I attempted to do some dry test fitting, I found that none of the three will thread in more than 1.5-2 turns into any of the air ports on the marker. Am not attempting to crank them down. They just come to a stop, as usual NPT threads do, and make it clear they aren't going to budge further without application of force, and I'm not going to do that.

This leaves lots of threading hanging out, and the fittings sit high.

The threads look and feel clean, and the parts into which they are going are also clean.

All the installation videos I've seen show these being able to get right up close to the part into which they are threaded, even with Loctite or teflon tape on the threads. Indeed, the video posted by Tf/Socrates Jones indicates that the fittings can be threaded in so far that they make contact with the marker.

Yet I'm looking at more than an 1/8" gap, which is more than the regular old brass fittings gave me.

The parts into which I'm threading these are excellent condition, and some new. I've tried older parts, with the same results.

Can anyone explain this? Has CCM changed designs? The videos I've seen from several years ago show a different wrench configuration, outside for the older and inside hex for the newer, so at least some things have changed. I always figured they didn't use normal NPT threading, to allow them to screw down so low.

EDIT: After a little more thought, am wondering if the posts are nickel plated brass, and if so, if the plating is simply a little thick. The hex key provided (great touch!) really protests at going in, as do my own keys, and in some orientations will not go in at all.

If that is the case, perhaps it may do to put these through a die to check them, and ultimately, to get them into shape.

This is of course assuming the issue is the plating.

But either way would like to hear from the experts here first.
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Last edited by Menace; 06-09-2017 at 12:51 AM.
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Old 06-09-2017, 09:38 AM   #2 (permalink)
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The fittings are made to a industry standard pipe tap ring gauge.

The plating is electroless nickel plating which adds only a couple tenths.
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Old 06-09-2017, 09:44 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Thank you for the reply!

Any clue as to why they aren't screwing down the way they do in the videos?

As noted above, I've tried them in other fittings and in no case will they make more than 2 full turns in, and certainly will not screw all the way down, and absolutely will not do so with any thread tape (I've tried), so am returning to checking them with a die.

Thanks again very kindly.
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Old 06-09-2017, 03:35 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Well, chatted today with Bill (super nice and helpful guy), and it seems my issue is a weird quirk common to automags, though perhaps there may be a remedy down the road.

Thank you again, good sir!
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Old 06-12-2017, 01:34 AM   #5 (permalink)
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There is only one 1/8 npt hole on a mag. What's going on with your fittings?
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Old 06-12-2017, 07:40 AM   #6 (permalink)
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I have 1/8-27 NPT as being around 0.3268 in thread depth for a tapped hole as our standard when I design, program ,and machine here at work. If you can get a caliper that has a depth gage, check to see roughly the depth of threading in your valve. 1/8 NPT is tapered so the depth of threading determines greatly how far your mating fitting will go in. Too deep and the fitting will go in too far and not tighten up and not deep enough, the fitting will only go in a turn or two. Sounds like you have the later problem. So either your hole on the valve isn't tapped deep enough, or your fitting is a tad wonky. Out of the two issues though, at least your fitting tightens up. It can be fixed, either by chasing the threads on the fitting with a die or running a tap into the valve a turn or two more. Either or, be careful and go slow in small increments which ever way you decide to go. Its easy to oversize an NPT hole or undersize a fitting. I would make sure the fitting isn't the issue before I touched the valve though. I've had over 50 something 'Mags and never had a side hole issue with any of the valves but then again, never used CCM fittings either. It may be that Mag valves ran a little shallow to compensate for brass or standard macroline fittings vs. the more precise CCM fittings. Good luck, hopefully that helps. Bill will take care of you either way I'm sure. CCM are good peeps.
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Old 06-12-2017, 10:48 AM   #7 (permalink)
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I second the idea of getting a 1/8 NPT die and trimming the fittings down a little. If you screw it up (which isn't likely), at least you're only ruining a $15 part and not something more expensive.

Go slow, of course. Give the fitting a half turn in the die and test it on your marker to see how much was taken off. Then rinse and repeat until it fits the way you want.

This is fairly common with CCM fittings, by the way. I've had it happen before as well, and not just with Automags.
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Old 06-12-2017, 02:11 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Thanks for the responses, all!

To Cunha, the mag valve has only one, but the vert ASA, which is made to the same AGD specs, also has the same issue.

I tried this on other valves, and all the same.

Then I got to checking with a small box of other fittings, and it really does seem to be an issue with mag valves (at least). None of my fittings would go in more than three turns, and most only went in two. And when you think about configuring it to have the line properly oriented, none would go more than two turns.

Just never noticed it before.

Since it's stainless, and since I'm no stranger to cutting on mag valves for sport, I ended up customizing a tap to fit the valve, and then ran it in slowly, checking every half turn until I got it where I wanted.

In the end I was able to get the CCM fitting to go in three and a half turns, which is more than any fitting has ever been in that valve, and it worked great.
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Old 06-12-2017, 03:30 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I just put a brass.elbow way down into my classic valve. Interesting
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Old 06-13-2017, 07:20 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Interesting indeed.

Perhaps it would be most accurate to say that, for my box of fittings and my valves, none would go in more than three/two, etc.

Which is to say, the CCM fittings pretty closely matched the brass elbows and other fittings I've got, and since the fittings come from a wide variety of brands and eras, and since the mag valves were also spread out in terms of age, that tells me the problem isn't with the fittings.

I've since learned that others have opened up mag valves in the way I did it, and for the reasons I did it, so that is interesting.
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