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Old 09-27-2013, 04:58 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Guys.

The gist of what I'm saying is "Yes, blowbacks work. They're not great but they work. We can do better. The industry is capable of graduating to BETTER stuff."
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Old 09-27-2013, 07:40 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Azodin's site calls it the pinnacle of blow-back design. Sadly for them, as a blowback, it suffers the same problem as every other blowback: high kick. The best blowback is still worse than the worst spool/electropneumatic poppet.
Have you shot one? Because almost everyone that I've seen has has said it doesn't shoot like a traditional blowback. Which leads me to believe the problem doesn't lie in the design being poor, but instead with manufacturers trying to cut costs by any means. This leads to them failing to bring new ideas to the platform, or utilize other proven techniques to get the thing shooting better.
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Old 09-27-2013, 08:37 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Guys.

The gist of what I'm saying is "Yes, blowbacks work. They're not great but they work. We can do better. The industry is capable of graduating to BETTER stuff."
the thread title is, in fact, Open Discussion: I think manufacturers should stop making new blowbacks

the whole better bit is purely subjective

my $0.02, inflation adjusted, is that the industry won't stop making blowbacks - for the multitude of reasons people in this thread have pointed out. will they make more entry level spool guns like the enmey? only time will tell

but ultimately the upgrade path from entry level to top end has been and will always be to put the entry level paintgun in the bin as a spare / loaner and go buy something fancy. in large part because when people get hooked on this sport enough to get all their own gear and play often enough to start musing 'hmmm, how can I make this better' they go through the path of basic upgrades but quickly end up getting more (better?) paintguns also. thats the nature of any gear related hobby
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Old 09-27-2013, 08:39 AM   #24 (permalink)
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OK, I admit, I am biased... I have ONLY ever played with a Tippmann A-5. I'm starting my 9th season playing paintball, and the Tippmann does what I want.

I can fire as fast as I want with it, as I have never been in a firefight and thought "boy, if only I could throw MORE paint right now, I would get out of this trouble I am in..."

It feels like a "real" gun when I use it, as that appeals to me as a real steel shooter. I like the kick and how loud it is when I fire. I also like that I can use Co2 with it, even in severe cold.

It fires very consistently with NO upgrades. All I did was polish my internals and replace the o-rings with silicone o-rings. I run a remote line, as I don't like my gun heavy with a tank on the back. It lets me switch hands easier when there is just a coil instead of a tank.

Here is a with the STOCK barrel, and some cheap $25 a box infinity paint. (regular retail is $35, but I got a deal on it).

I always hear how "high ends, and spool valve or poppet is so much more consistent shot to shot..." well, here you go, check out the shot to shot consistency on my cheap blowback with the older style stock A-5 barrel. (this one cost me $130. the one I am using now cost me $10).
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Tippmann A-5 Stock Barrel Test 65 feet 265 fps Paintball Accuracy Testing Infinity Paint - YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRhSIc7Sf2g

One thing I have noticed over the years is a general lack of knowledge about how to properly clean a powertube in a blow back style marker. If you are seeing big velocity variations in your Tippmann, or it is shooting low, it is likely your powertube needs to be taken apart and cleaned and lightly oiled.

When using Co2, the powertube will get dirtier faster if the co2 you are using is dirty, so again, this is the single biggest problem I see when I hear people having velocity issues with their Tippmann.


Should we throw away the entire platform because people don't maintain their gear so it works effectively or should we just educate people that they can buy a low end blowback, and with proper maintenance they can actually get very good results from that platform?


There is always a market for low end markers, especially ones that with a tiny bit of work, can produce a very consistent shot, over years of use with NO additional parts needed. (other than o-rings obviously).
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Old 09-27-2013, 08:57 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Azodin's site calls it the pinnacle of blow-back design.
When I took mine out at the first event I had it for, none of teammates initially believed that it was a BB. It just shot sooooooo beautifully (and this is a team comprised mainly of Axes and PE guns)
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Sadly for them, as a blowback, it suffers the same problem as every other blowback: high kick.
Oh grow up. Even if complaining about paintball gun "kick" wasn't already comical, Bored is right; a gun that feels like it's actually DOING something is fun. And watch the shooting videos that have been done with the Z2; it's INCREDIBLY smooth.
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The best blowback is still worse than the worst spool/electropneumatic poppet.
My old $85 Kaos worked every time it saw the field. My buddy has yet to go to the field ONCE without his $250 PMR crapping out and leaking through the backcap. So I guess you define "better" by some criteria other than whether or not it reliably functions? 'Cause for most people, that's the single most important factor.
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Old 09-27-2013, 09:09 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Just because you don't like them doesn't mean we should get rid of them.

They serve a purpose: cheap entry into our sport. They have just replaced the plastic pumps of the 90's.
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Old 09-27-2013, 09:36 AM   #27 (permalink)
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One additional point: this is probably not the best forum to win support for an argument that such-and-such is obsolete technology that should be abandoned.
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Old 09-27-2013, 10:17 AM   #28 (permalink)
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One additional point: this is probably not the best forum to win support for an argument that such-and-such is obsolete technology that should be abandoned.
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Old 09-27-2013, 10:21 AM   #29 (permalink)
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On September 14, most of my x-ball friends and I got rental guns and went out for some hopperball woodsball. We had probably the most fun we've had in a while.

I can see your argument. But you can see that better is not always more fun. Paintball was designed to be fun first. The first game was won without a shot fired. The most fun I've had were the days I came home with my knees and shins skinned up from rocks and grit in my teeth. Its about that slap happy look at me I'm gettting shot at big goofy fun sometimes. Its not always better to have a numb feeling shooting pod after pod at a bunker trying to keep the guy in.
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Old 09-27-2013, 10:31 AM   #30 (permalink)
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The blow-back is a simple, tried and true design that works and works very well. Should paintball "do better"? Better than what? A design that works consistantly, is incredibly easy to mass produce, even easier to maintain and is accessible. If there is a trophy for how to develop a platform it goes to the blow-back. Yes it's no Aston Martin but when a new player can pick up a NEW reliable gun for less than $100 and never drop a cent on it aside from a barrel, loader and o-rings and it'll run for years upon years, you can't do better than that.
Oh those poor lowly players being forced to buy such poor equipment.
The enmy is a money pit, it's designed to make money for GoG not by making a good marker but a platform that requires continuos investment and upgrades, that's how's its marketed, that's how sold.
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