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Old 09-26-2013, 10:22 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Open Discussion: I think manufacturers should stop making new blowbacks

I had an interesting question that led to a discussion on a different forum the other day. A player returning to paintball after a considerable hiatus inquired as to why there was a general dislike for mechanical sear-tripping guns. I told him it's not sear-trippers I object to; I love Mags, 'Cockers, and pumps. It's blowbacks I have a problem with. I think the industry has outgrown them. Outgrown the need for them. A lot of us here started playing with blowbacks, and we have fond memories of our Kingman Spyders or 68 Carbines. Most of us have moved away from them because, face it, they're a crappy platform. All you can really say about them is they're cheap and they work. There's nothing particularly desirable about them, and they just end up becoming money sinks for new players who don't know any better. I think it's time for the market to graduate and offer better entry level products.

"But Bones," you interject, "what should new players buy? Are you suggesting they buy things from GoG and give money to literally Hitler/Satan/The Gardners?"

No. Well not really. I will never endorse a GoG product as long as doing so still gives money to Adam and Billy. However they undeniably make an attractive product in their entry level eNMEy (mechanical Ion). It's seriously like $130 new and, if I understand things correctly, you can swap out the mechanical valve to a board/solenoid converting it into an eXTCy/Ion. That spool design is leaps and bounds ahead of the stacked tube blowback in terms of how the gun shoots. Meanwhile, Tippmann's 98 Custom costs the same price and is still the same blowback clamshell nightmare. Dangerous Power's E1 is close, but they've got a lot of unhappy people running around besmirching their name right now.

What would I really like to see? I'd like to see more manufacturers take the cue from GoG in this case and start producing more simple, rugged, entry level mech spools. I feel they are a superior platform for the new-player demographic, especially if they can be converted to a proper board and solenoid, not just the pancake 'noid e-blade patch-fix. There will always be a market for entry level guns. Let's make that market suck less.

I would like to hear your thoughts.
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Old 09-26-2013, 10:27 PM   #2 (permalink)
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It isn't entry level, but from what I've been reading, the Azodin Z2 is supposed to be really good. I'm just too poor to take the plunge on another gun.

That's about all I can add to this conversation.
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Old 09-26-2013, 10:33 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I think you're right in that there are WAY better options than blowbacks out there for entry level players. Anytime someone I know wants to take the step of getting their own gear, I have them shoot some of my markers, and usually end of recommending an automag classic. Simple, inexpensive, reliable. The backup plan is a trusty 98 Custom, but for the money, you get a lot more bang for your buck with the 'mag.

But on the question of "should companies still make blowbacks?" I don't think the answer is a clearcut "no".

Some STBB's are cheap pieces of junk, but they're cheap pieces of junk that cost half of what the next best option costs, for 80% of the performance, and 90% of the reliability and durability. That 10% difference in uptime is significant, but the for the 1-3 times a year player, it's not worth the difference to grab a 'mag or eNMEy. Or, the difference gets put towards a better (hopefully thermal) mask, which I think has a much larger impact on enjoyability for the casual player. So while in most cases I don't think STBBs (or a basic Tippy, for that matter) are the way to go, I think there's still a niche for them in the market.
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Old 09-26-2013, 10:40 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Bonesjackson View Post

I would like to hear your thoughts.
blowbacks are easy to understand and easy to fix. i have my fair share of blowback farting on me, but my 2008 electra having never failed besides a low batt and worn reg o-ring leads me to believe that build quality affects its mechanisms more than people give credit for, and convinces me that the design is not inherently bad, but only due to every manufacturer across the board attempting to cut corners to take advantage of its already cheap cost.

beginners under your wing have the benefit of you taking good care of the loaner you lend them. not the case with beginners who start alone and need to learn by themselves the ins and outs of a gun. i think blowbacks will always have a place as a beater. if companies would stop skimping out on them, the platform would perform much better.

Last edited by heinous; 09-26-2013 at 10:43 PM.
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Old 09-26-2013, 10:42 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Dogg3 View Post
It isn't entry level, but from what I've been reading, the Azodin Z2 is supposed to be really good. I'm just too poor to take the plunge on another gun.

That's about all I can add to this conversation.
Azodin's site calls it the pinnacle of blow-back design. Sadly for them, as a blowback, it suffers the same problem as every other blowback: high kick. The best blowback is still worse than the worst spool/electropneumatic poppet.
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Old 09-26-2013, 10:51 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonesjackson View Post
Azodin's site calls it the pinnacle of blow-back design. Sadly for them, as a blowback, it suffers the same problem as every other blowback: high kick. The best blowback is still worse than the worst spool/electropneumatic poppet.
Some one already brought it up wow!

I think they should not go away but companies should stop trying to market them as "high end"

Not bashing Azodin... but to 90% of hard core paintball players we look at that company as only marking super expensive walmart guns with blinking lights and clicky triggers.

Hell even the idea of electronics that have hammers died before these.... IE impulse and bushies.
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Old 09-26-2013, 11:17 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I am sorry, but I laugh anytime someone talks about paintguns having too much recoil

beginners are supposed to have fun - have you ever considered that maybe some folks are amused by having a bit of a jump on firing? its like wow, the gun is DOING SOMETHING! it's not just farting and sending a ball downrange . . . look! the bolt is slamming back and forth! there is noise and motion!! Weeeeee!!!

personally I think autocockers were so popular for a time because LOOK STUFF IS HAPPENING!!! there are like rods and backblocks flying around!!!! its like a damn MACHINE . . . and as much as I love 'Mags, firing them is anticlimactic compared to the whirring motion of an autococker blazing away

but I am an odd duck in regards to paintball. I'll probably be fielding a VM vs the advanced walk on crowd this weekend. why? because it is an effing fun gun to shoot. I'll be giggling away while hammering out shots from it, knowing it has more metal in it's bolt and hammer than some paintguns have in their entirety
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Old 09-26-2013, 11:38 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I have never felt disadvantaged with a blowback. Granted I am not playing Xball with one, but for 95% of players they will work just fine. Just Say No to the arms race.

We'll see if I'm still singing the same tune after defending Fort Worr with my Carbine this weekend.
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Old 09-27-2013, 12:01 AM   #9 (permalink)
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I second the idea that a gun that does stuff and has things moving around is fun.

I think the demand for blowbacks will slowly decline as more spool guns are developed but, people are still using them and they still work so there will always be some demand. People are still making Nelson and Sheridan pumps aren't they?
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Old 09-27-2013, 12:05 AM   #10 (permalink)
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I have never felt disadvantaged with a blowback. Granted I am not playing Xball with one, but for 95% of players they will work just fine.
You're missing my point. I think they're an inferior platform altogether and we can do better. Let's.

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People are still making Nelson and Sheridan pumps aren't they?
Completely different area/market. This has nothing to do with pumps.
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