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Old 09-15-2015, 11:28 AM   #111 (permalink)
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Play your game.

Respect how others play it.

It's not the gear or guns, its who you play with.
I think this is the while td/dl of the thread, can't emphasize this enough. Electros aren't the problem.

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Originally Posted by Millar156 View Post
So does anyone want to propose a workable solution for those of us not blessed enough to live in an area with a large enough player base to support splitting equipment owners from renters? Or shall I just continue to try to be the best ambassador that I can?
I think if you absolutely have to mix a simple solution would be respawn games. That way even if the noobs get out by much more skilled players they are back at it shortly. With the adrenalin continuing to flow if someone does take a few balls they will quickly forget the sting once they are back.

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Originally Posted by uv_halo View Post
The funniest thing about this thread is that it seems that most are assuming that renters want the kid gloves. Now, I'm not saying that they want to be laid into but, I know when I was a teenager, I didn't expect or want to the 'kid's portion', hell they didn't even have such a thing or separate group. I wanted the 'full course'.
I agree, people should know what they are getting into when they play. I look at welts like a badge of honor. A middle finger to those that spent their weekend playing golf instead. Paintball was originally an "extreme sport", what happened to that? I realize that field owners are out to attract a wider audience so they soften it up a bit, but you can't have it both ways.



It comes down to running a good business or a bad business. Paintball fields close not because agglets are running around lighting up noobs at 20bps. They close because a passionate paintball player is not always a good business person.

A lot of these passionate paintball owners with low business fields have already turned the keys of the asylum over to the inmates by catering to regulars and owners that exhibit bad behavior. They may see catering to rentals and birthday parties and whatnot as selling out.

The issue described in this thread doesn't happen at fields doing good business because the renters play separately.

Its unfortunate for the players that get stuck by fields with bad business owners. The good news is these owners might be open to new ideas if you can get guaranteed business, like a pump night or a rental special new players night, a skills camp, etc.

If a paintball field cannot attract enough of its core business (renters) to have a separate group its time to take a step back and figure out what they are doing wrong. If a paintball field isn't going after private parties and events (where you can schedule your staff properly and buy paint on demand) they also need to figure out what they are doing wrong.

Last edited by theangrydragon; 09-15-2015 at 11:34 AM.
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Old 09-15-2015, 12:04 PM   #112 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by theangrydragon View Post
I agree, people should know what they are getting into when they play. I look at welts like a badge of honor. A middle finger to those that spent their weekend playing golf instead. Paintball was originally an "extreme sport", what happened to that? I realize that field owners are out to attract a wider audience so they soften it up a bit, but you can't have it both ways.
If the market size is big enough, we certainly can have it both ways. Just not together.

What happened to "extreme sport? When paintball started marketing itself as an "extreme" sport, it was considered extreme at sub 6 bps. What should we call it today?
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Old 09-15-2015, 01:54 PM   #113 (permalink)
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What should we call it today?
hmmm.. in the context of gear owners who mix with novices who go loaded for bear and seeking to mow noobs etc: sociopathic
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Old 09-15-2015, 02:40 PM   #114 (permalink)
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I see your point and there is credence to it. Electro's are not the issue, overshooting is. As mentioned this was an adults game at one point in its existence. As a Dad I got my son involved and we started up a team. I notice fewer Dads and sons and just kids getting dropped off with a fistful o money. Most (not all) of these kids barely understand how the guns work let alone discipline enough not shoot four or five rounds into their barrel sleeve. If one is going to be an ambassador to the sport do your best to try to convey to new players what the sport is about and attempt to convey the same message to the players that are being abusive.
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Old 09-15-2015, 09:47 PM   #115 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Horizon View Post
If the market size is big enough, we certainly can have it both ways. Just not together.

What happened to "extreme sport? When paintball started marketing itself as an "extreme" sport, it was considered extreme at sub 6 bps. What should we call it today?
I totally understand your decision and leanings- you're a field operator looking out for customers and you want to grow your business, and most importantly, I don't know what your local demographics are. With that said though, I wonder what would happen to your customer base if you went in the opposite direction, i.e. If you operated your field like one of my local fields: All firing modes allowed, re-spawns, A5-RT rentals, etc? Would your customer base simply change out to that of my local field? It's mostly college age or older with maybe 5-10% of attendees at most being below 16.

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Originally Posted by theangrydragon View Post
I agree, people should know what they are getting into when they play. I look at welts like a badge of honor. A middle finger to those that spent their weekend playing golf instead. Paintball was originally an "extreme sport", what happened to that? I realize that field owners are out to attract a wider audience so they soften it up a bit, but you can't have it both ways.
While I don't see my hits in the same way (I see them as a failure on my part in situational awwareness, tactics) I don't see them as something that isn't a part of the game, and I acknowledge that most people need that level of force to register a hit during a shootout, especially when their adrenalin is going.

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I see your point and there is credence to it. Electro's are not the issue, overshooting is. As mentioned this was an adults game at one point in its existence. As a Dad I got my son involved and we started up a team. I notice fewer Dads and sons and just kids getting dropped off with a fistful o money. Most (not all) of these kids barely understand how the guns work let alone discipline enough not shoot four or five rounds into their barrel sleeve. If one is going to be an ambassador to the sport do your best to try to convey to new players what the sport is about and attempt to convey the same message to the players that are being abusive.
I would say that rather than it being so clearly electro vs overshooting it's a matter of multiple factors: double finger triggers (most commonly but not exclusively on electros), the false sense of security caused by 'semi-auto only' rules, etc. This of course is aggrevated by player inexperience (on the giving and receiving end) and even folks with bad additudes.
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Old 09-15-2015, 10:16 PM   #116 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by uv_halo View Post
I totally understand your decision and leanings- you're a field operator looking out for customers and you want to grow your business, and most importantly, I don't know what your local demographics are. With that said though, I wonder what would happen to your customer base if you went in the opposite direction, i.e. If you operated your field like one of my local fields: All firing modes allowed, re-spawns, A5-RT rentals, etc? Would your customer base simply change out to that of my local field? It's mostly college age or older with maybe 5-10% of attendees at most being below 16.
Yes of course the demographics would change to something similar to what you stated. But I already have those people coming. Would more of them come? I don't think so, but I would be eliminateing many others that come now. Overall, I am quite sure I would have less customers (and probably more problems like arguments and fights).
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Old 09-16-2015, 12:03 AM   #117 (permalink)
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The largest most successful fields I have played at mix rentals with gear owners without issues (for the most part). You know the one thing all the quality fields have? Quality staff.

It's the responsibility of all players and field staff to keep "that guy" in check. People need to stop blaming the equipment, and start blaming the people behind the equipment.

Unless you bring a big group to play all to yourself your playing as a "walk on" and there is nothing wrong with that.

Last edited by Mr Idiot Box; 09-16-2015 at 12:07 AM.
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Old 09-16-2015, 01:21 AM   #118 (permalink)
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Renters that have a great time hopefully return.

Part of having a great time is going to a place where the field staff and regulars care and respect you enough to help you improve as a player. New players that reject the help can learn by trial and error.

Competition is part of the joy for some folks. Improvement is also a joy for some of us.
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Old 09-16-2015, 02:43 PM   #119 (permalink)
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I don't think I'm adding anything new, but here's my opinion, in order of preference.

1. Split groups, if turnout allows.

2. If not, or if combining for a big game, all must use a gravity hopper. In my opinion, a gravity hopper is the easiest way to level the playing field in terms of equipment. It's not perfect, but it's easy to enforce.

In either case, be a good human being. One should treat others as one would like others to treat oneself. Offer help, especially if asked, but keep it simple. Good starting advice is, "Be safe, and have fun. Anything else that you may care to learn will come with time."
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Old 09-17-2015, 12:42 PM   #120 (permalink)
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First off whether or not recball is in need of saving is up for debate. We have more rec players and renters out at my local fields than I have seen in years. Some split groups and some do not. Honestly player enjoyment and return doesn't seem to deviate much. I strongly disagree that electronic markers are the problem. Ramping and such(anything that takes away complete control from the player) are an issue, but a different topic. All of these fields have good staff that enforces the rule and run things well. The issue(if there is an issue) is with the field staff. If they are allowing things to slide then things get out of hand. What marker a player is using makes no difference. I can shoot someone in the head four times just as easily with my T8s as I can my electro. It is the responsibility of the field staff to make sure that all players know it isn't acceptable or tolerated and to deal with it when it does happen.
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