|Mag Fed A special section just for all your magazine fed guns and projects|
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|10-14-2013, 04:46 PM||#1 (permalink)|
Walking without rhythm
An Existential Question About MagFed...
An interesting debate started up on PBN about 'MagFed' play. The discussion seems to have peetered out and I am still left with questions, mainly two;
What is the Definition of 'MagFed'?
What is the Purpose of 'MagFed'?
I don't think these questions are quite as easy to answer as they seem.
Magfed paintball intrigues me, I like the idea, but I don't like the practical outcome...I Tried! I got a TPX and 10 mags and tried! But even such small gun required a whole NEW rig to carry mags in and that rig was bigger and more cumbersome than my normal loadout!
I LOVE the limited ammo style of game that is innate to Magfed play, and I also really enjoy the scenario/objective style of game that is usually played as well. And as more and more of these games are being held, I want to join in...but I want to use my pumps, or my Stickfeed Tac-One...not a big, heavy, cumbersome gun and a large vest...When I ask if I can use a pump, I get told that it is not acceptable in a 'MagFed' only game...
Well Flounder asked this question,
-Mags like Dmags, Rap4 Mags, or Milsig Mags...
-Pistols such as the TPX and T8/9 family.
-Spring Fed guns,
-Cylinder fed (DRV, 3357...)
Others offered some ideas for how to define 'Magfed'
Another definition was offered, It seemed simple at first, but complications arise if we use it. Discussion followed.
What about Stock Class or Stickfed markers? (My personal favorite) Sure there is nothing removable or even spring fed but the action of reloading a stick feed is similar enough to changing a mag and they certainly do not offer any sort of advantage in ROF.
So are we going to make the definition of 'MagFed' something broad to encompass everything or are we going to keep it narrow and exclude some of the less popular choices?
ex. MagFed is any marker that uses an internal or external reservoir powered by a Spring/Gravity/other that contains no more than 20rnds unless its a box mag?
MagFed is any marker that uses a removable reservoir powered by spring that contains no more than 20rnds...
Inflicted chimed in with this Gem!
My stickfeed is out but springfed markers like my kp2 are still in.
However using this definition means markers that used a cyclone or rip clip are also out despite looking the part. (Sort of).
I think this definition is getting closer but it still needs some work.
My next question then becomes...Is there really a point to having a hard and fast MagFed definition? Or should people focus less on the marker and load out of the player and more on the actual point of the game trying to be played. Ie. Limited paint, scenario based, missions, objectives, team work...whatever...
I think the "Want" for 'MagFed' is primarily for the 'Fun', 'cool', 'Hardcore!' factors.
Fun for sure! Changing mags is awesome! And it sure looks 'cool' and make a player feel 'Hardcore' slapping in a new mag instead of dumping paint from a tube or a pod...
Limited Paint is a result of the end product, not a reason FOR the end product as there are many easier, simpler more efficient ways to achieve limited paint usage.
I have a hard time buying the 'realism' angle however...for the simple reason that paintballs themselves do not act the same as a bullet. Never have, and never will. Firearms are designed to efficiently load bullets into the chamber and send them down range... Using a Mag to do this with paint (excluding First Strikes) is actually harder to do that with bullets...
Paintball tactics also don't equate well in the real world just as military tactics don't equate well in the paintball world. Ex. Rarely do you find a game where one side has 3+ to 1 odds advantage...
Strict definitions of anything, including 'MagFed', is going to exclude a lot of potential players. Look at the 'pure' Stock class debate.
I find this to be an interesting paradox where in 'MagFed' players want to grow their slice of the paintball game but continue to exclude willing participants with strict definitions of what is allowed to participate.
So...Now I open the floor.
What is the Definition of 'MagFed'?
What is the Purpose of 'MagFed'?
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|10-14-2013, 05:01 PM||#2 (permalink)|
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Full disclosure: I love stilgar.
In all seriousness paintball should be inclusive to everyone. Relatively speaking it is still small and excluding people from play based on definition alone seems to have a negative impact. Limited paint = mag fed = same style and pace of play.
Let's go have fun without telling others "sorry you're not allowed."
Thanks for your time
|10-14-2013, 06:12 PM||#3 (permalink)|
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Leeds, United Kingdom
Great write-up; we were having a similar discussion on one of the UK forums running up to a magfed only game here.
The general consensus by the site playing was that tubefeds still constituted as magfed, but this led to people turning up with DM9's and so on with stickfeeds taped on.
Personally, I don't see a problem with that - magfed (at least in my opinion) is merely the promotion of a more tactical (or tacticool?) style play to make a refreshing change from the usual shoot ropes, find bunker, shoot more attrition style play you see on most UK fields.
We as a team play pistols-only, sort of taking it a step further I guess, and the reason we do it is purely for the fun factor - coming up against players with 100-200 rounds really makes you have to think about what you're using and how you're moving.
I guess the point I'm trying to make is, both types of gameplay can exist on the same field without any problems, so why make something niche like magfed even more exclusive?
As a footnote, I handload a Nelspot 007 (no tubes, just a phantom feed) and I've been told that things like that weren't allowed in magfed games. Pretty daft really.
|10-14-2013, 06:18 PM||#4 (permalink)|
Resident ATS Enthusiast
Join Date: May 2010
Location: San Antonio, Tx
I was wondering along a similar vein earlier. Are QLoaders magfed? What about ATS markers with the hopper adapter installed? In that case a chain driven system loads balls from a 20 round magazine, but a classic hopper reloads the magazine (giving 220+ round max capacity).
|10-14-2013, 06:26 PM||#5 (permalink)|
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: East Mids, UK
I prefer "limited ammo" to "mag fed"
Let that guy stick a 50 round hopper on an e-gun, but give everyone five hundred balls for the day. Or 200. Forcing constant reloads can enhance tactical play, but is easily over come with decent teamwork. But maybe that's the point?
|10-14-2013, 07:51 PM||#6 (permalink)|
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Toronto, Canada
Limited ammo I think is the best 'one size fits all' rule for these kinds of games.
Cynically, I think this mag-fed only is the bastard child of milsim purists and companies that are trying to push their product onto a generation of players. Paintball is hurting somewhat and this is an untapped niche market.
I really want to get into the idea of mag-fed, but everytime I try a gun, even pistols, I can only think about how much extra stuff I have to carry.
|10-15-2013, 03:02 AM||#7 (permalink)|
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Portland, OR area...
Hmmm interesting read.
In answer to the first question, "definition of Magfed", here is my opinion.
I think there are really two definitions for it. First being the description of a type of equipment. Mainly paintball guns/markers that are fed via a spring loaded magazine. Could the word magazines definition be broadened to include hoppers, stock class feeds, and stick feeds? I suppose so. But we don't. Because a hopper is a hopper, a stick feed is a stick feed, and a mag is a mag. That's what they are. Magazines are spring loaded. Would a spring feed be considered a magazine? To me, yes. Would a Q-loader be considered a magazine? I believe it would be(a very large and, in my experience, somewhat unreliable one).
The second definition more defines the play style, or format in which equipment is used. Like any paintball gun, magfed guns can be enjoyed on any field and many different games by many different people. "Mil simmers", rec players, "speedball" players, etc... It brings the idea of limited paint play to a larger audience and gives people like me another excuse to buy more guns! But when you refer to "magfed only" games that's a bit more than just a limited paint game or a pump only game. It's more about role playing. The magfed guns help enhance the roll playing experience through cosmetics, and their similarity to real guns. Vest, pouches, and assorted other soft gear adds even more the experience. To the purist, it really takes way from the milsim/roll playing/scenario feel when a bright pink ccm with a stick feed is out in a magfed only game. Same goes for tacced out Tippys with 300rd loaders on the side. On the flip side, if I went to a stock class only event and I saw a guy bust out his Milsig, or TPX or springfeed Sheridan, the argument would be valid as well because they do not fit under the stock class definition. The issue of what is allowed in "magfed only" games is with the event organizers. It really depends on the type of game that they are going for.
At the end of the day though, play the format that you like, with the gear you like. It's just a game to be played for fun after all
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|10-15-2013, 03:48 AM||#8 (permalink)|
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: California Coast
I've been playing for a minute and it's like this; paintball in general is a small enough crowd that when a mag fed event doesn't allow anything that is not mag fed, like a stock class phantom for example, they are not helping the sport grow. I can see some reasoning behind it being mag fed only, but I liken it to a debate from a while ago when guys would show up with stick feeds on tricked out cocker pumps or a big debate was like the pt extreme being spring fed not counting as "stock class". My argument was the same then; If a player showed up with a stick feed on his marker, doesn't he deserve to play for conforming to the rules? I'd call him / her motivated. I could care less if his feed holds 3 more paintballs, or is springfed, we are all here, let's PLAY ffs. Some of the best games I have ever had were oddball pickup games.
I am all for a mag fed non blowback like the T15. Having a reliable mechanical feed device under the marker that isolates problems / breaks to 20 paintballs and let's me sight down the top? Shweet. I like a short barrel, no unneccessary rails, bell & whistles and absolutely tank in stock.
I have been shooting pumps, pistols and first strikes exclusively and am now branching a little into speedball with a new Etha I got in a trade from a shopowner. Mag fed, stock class, woods/scenarioball, even airball are all A-OK with me, as long as I get to play paintball I'm happy.
Good judgment comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgement.
|10-15-2013, 05:00 AM||#9 (permalink)|
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Clinton, MO
For me, if someone wants a limited paint/mag/tube fed game then I'm all for it. If they want to play army, they're not the people I want to hang around anyway and maybe that's the way it should be classified. Don't have "magfed" games, have "pretend you're in the army" games and then you probably won't have to worry about all this debating. Paintball is a game that I like to play, grown men playing make believe is something I'm very happy to stay clear of. Stop all the legitamizing and just say "you can't shoot that gun or dress that way, we're having a make believe game today."
I b da fat one
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Last edited by K_Obeastly; 10-15-2013 at 06:07 AM.
|10-15-2013, 08:05 AM||#10 (permalink)|
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Leeds, United Kingdom
In relative terms, the dynamic shift away from that only really started occuring within the latter half of the last 20 years or so when the focus moved away from woodsball and more towards sup-air. Now we've got a new dynamic where people are wanting to emulate something they consider to be more realistic (or more like video games, take your pick).
Like I said before though, there's room for all of it without magfed players needing to be so exclusive about it.
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