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Old 02-04-2020, 12:51 PM   #51 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chappy View Post
Also temp fluctuations. CO2 has a significantly lower pressure at 60*f vs 90*f.
Very true! Some days in New England in the early summer we'll have to adjust velocity down significantly after lunchtime cause it creeps as the sun rises.
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Old 02-04-2020, 04:35 PM   #52 (permalink)
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If you have gun with a pressure gauge that faces the user, like newer Phantoms often are, you develop a very good understanding of how much temp effects pressure and how pressure affects velocity. You see the gauge every time you point the gun. Velocity is affected not very much up to about 1200 psi and I don’t think I’ve ever seen pressures higher than that. It’s not something that varies hugely from shot to shot, not even from day to day really. I generally run vertical these days or a bottom line which is just as good. I chrono responsibly and played in the end of July Hells Survivors Monster game and only had to adjust one of my guns once (when I realized the gauge was going to say 900psi all day).

I would never tell someone with an HPA Automag that they need to try CO2 but on the other hand I’d never steer a Nelson user away from CO2 unless their specific situation makes CO2 impractical, like when your field decides they just don’t want to fill it anymore, ever more common now.

There’s a lot of group think in paintball and evangelism. I’ve people even say stuff like “HPA is just overall better for your gun.” I have to ask these people...how? I’ve got a 28 year old Trracer with 10,000 shots on it that has never wasted anything but tank o-rings. Original valve and seal. How could anything be better for my gun than zero repairs?

Even tank o-ring blowouts can be great minimized by technique or with on-offs. Some ASAs waste them easier than others. With cockers it’s really easy to turn off the air, then vent the gun, then screw the tank out with zero pressure escaping.

Last edited by SignOfZeta; 02-04-2020 at 04:39 PM.
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Old 02-04-2020, 06:07 PM   #53 (permalink)
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These are cool bottles.

For me, the price makes me rather use a 17/3k since I rarely get 4500psi fills anyways.

45/45's give me more volume so I actually get more shots, and have the bonus of taking 4500 fills when available.

Of course, they aren't 2 inches in diameter.

These are awesome tanks I Can't wait to see them.
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Old 02-16-2020, 12:19 AM   #54 (permalink)
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I find this tank intriguing and on the surface would want it.

But there are three issues (one minor) being discussed here that need to be separated for discussion

first, minor issue IMO... the reg...
I have not heard anything majorly negative about it
but in all I have used over the 30 years of play prefer ninja whenever possible.


second... the general rehydro issue.
the DOT set the regulation any tank under two feet length (i believe but since I have never used the 115ci tanks the length was something I never remember) and two inches diameter does not have to be rehydro.
that has been the gold standard for tanks used by pump , mag fed , pistol , havoc launchers (me), ect.

this leads into issue three

three.... as stated above the non rehydro regulations were pretty cut and dry.
but all those tanks were STEEL construction.
This one is a composite wrap.
that is where the issue becomes sticky and questionable.
I dont think the original regulation ever stated the material of the tank in this regard... they do for larger tanks have a material clause that a "steely" tank has to be hydro every five years like a composite/composite wrap. But it DOES NOT have a total service life limitation... If it passes, its good.

I honestly dont know how DOT would decide/regulate this

go with the size exemption , rate it as composite tanks of bigger size, or something inbetween.

Its gonna be interesting to see how they rule but IMO hope they rate it as a larger steely tank... Every 5 years hydro with infinite life as long as it passes.


However the price will really have to come down ALOT for me to consider it.
the rehydro costs (if they require it) doesnt bother me at all (if infinite life ).

but even if not having to be rehydro for a limited use small tank the over 200 us just too much.

now if it drops to say 150 with no rehydro or say 100ish with rehydro (but infinite life) I could be persuaded .

anything else its a luxury my current finances wont support.

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Old 02-16-2020, 01:42 AM   #55 (permalink)
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There is no grey area this tank will require rehydro and will have a lifespan like all wrapped tanks.

The exempt tanks are specific 2 inch aluminum (not steel) bottles.

This bottle is a lighter better higher capacity bottle but like you mentioned most folks won't take the upsell for the extra 1500 psi.
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Old 02-16-2020, 02:19 AM   #56 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cunha View Post
There is no grey area this tank will require rehydro and will have a lifespan like all wrapped tanks.

The exempt tanks are specific 2 inch aluminum (not steel) bottles.

This bottle is a lighter better higher capacity bottle but like you mentioned most folks won't take the upsell for the extra 1500 psi.
actually you are incorrect on steel tanks not being exempt.
unless it is a specifically labeled tank

here is the exact quote from [ZDSPB.com]

"Steel and aluminum tanks never expire; the tank is good as long as it pasts the hydrotesting. Fiber-wrapped tanks, however, are only good for 15 years maximum. After that, the tank must be retired.
The only exception is steel tanks marked 3HT, which must be hydrotested every three years, and expire after 24 years.
This applies to both CO2 and HPA tanks."


you are correct alot of "metal" paintball tanks of the 13ci or so have gone to aluminum.

but if they are older (as alot of co2 tanks fall into this catagory) they are most likely the old steel.


if I might digress / expand this a bit.

IMO any tank could fail wither new , recent rehydro or old.
depends on how you cared for it, construction (could be manufacturing fault) , thermal issues, how it was filled / how much filled, faulty burst disk and even the dreaded putting oil in HPA tank.

I have found from some players playing in 2000 some old wrapped tanks with 3000psi air still in it and in great shape.
cant legally fill them so used the air to do some testing on repaired guns and they worked well.

the material and manufacturing techniques are even better today.

I would wish to see REASONABLE changes in regulations.

If they are manufactured to specs they should be every 5 years hydro and physical inspection and if they pass they be used until next one.

I could see maybe after say 25 years or so going then to every three years.

or taking from the scuba tanks for scuba use they have a yearly visual once over and 5 year hydro...

just food for thought

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Old 02-17-2020, 12:54 AM   #57 (permalink)
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scrounger- I like your idea, but to play devil's advocate here who's to say you won't want a new bottle after the 15yr fiber-wrapped bottle's life? 15 years is a long time for a piece of gear to be in a person's regular paintball rotation. Not to mention the advancements in HPA bottles that have come along in the last 15 years. Regulators & bottle construction could become even better in that time. Who's to say you won't want a new one in 15 years anyway?

Not to mention the industry prolly wouldn't want it as it would cut into revenue from selling new bottles. And paintball is kind of a niche hobby I have a feeling it will be subject to blanket regulations for as long as I play anyway. The rest of the pressure vessel manufacturing industry, not to mention the federal government, will have to be convinced that this would be OK and I dunno if I can see that happening.

Again, I like your idea. I'm all for a little change/leeway in response to better manufacturing. If I could continue rehydrotesting my 68/4500 I would, at least for loaner & testing purposes. But I'm due for a new bottle in 2 years (bought new 13yrs ago) & I plan on just getting a new one to suit my needs & conveniences, whatever they may be at that time.
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Old 02-17-2020, 01:46 PM   #58 (permalink)
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I ordered one threw my local proshop they are at extravaganza this week as well so should be seeing what companies are going to offer it as well. Not positive FS will be the only one.
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Old 02-18-2020, 12:32 AM   #59 (permalink)
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Scrounger, I could be wrong, but a quote from zdspb doesn't do it. It would be in the regs.

Here's regs https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-id...e49.3.180_1205

There's a note that says "1Any cylinder not exceeding 2 inches outside diameter and less than 2 feet in length is excepted from volumetric expansion test."

https://i.ibb.co/wLHqw1M/Screenshot-20200217-214212.png screensbot of table. ANY seems pretty concrete. So maybe it's any including 4500 Psi wrapped tanks. Or maybe these regs are specific to aluminum tanks. Bed time cell phone lawyering isn't that productive

Not sure why I was thinking it had to be an aluminum cylinder specifically.
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Old 02-18-2020, 12:44 AM   #60 (permalink)
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There is no clear answer on just what the 2"/2' rule does or does not apply to. We've discussed this in the other thread for this tank. We are awaiting clarification from the DOT, but I honestly doubt we'll ever get it.
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