mcarterbrown.com  

The Dead Zone Paintball Related Chat

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12-24-2012, 11:42 PM   #61 (permalink)
Seasoned Member
 
Patar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Hayward, California

Maybe in speedball it's easier to setup the field symmetrically and cut out a lot of bias for each team, but out in the woods it's just the field's fault for making an imbalanced field. It should be their priority to make sure each side has pros and cons that balance eachother out.
__________________
Feedback
Patar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2012, 01:25 AM   #62 (permalink)
Stock Class Aficionado
 
idkfa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada

CCM Fan
There is nothing inherently wrong with speedball. It was a format created to try to legitimize the game as a competitive sport and to make it easier to watch. Unfortunately, paintball is a horrible spectator sport as it has no real focal point for viewers.

The only truly balanced field is a symmetrical one. Say what you will about the attitude and rate of fire of tournament speedball, but the fields do offer a perfectly balanced game suitable for competitive formats. If you want serious competition there has to be acceptance from the participants that all things are equal at the whistle blow.
__________________
idkfa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2012, 02:14 AM   #63 (permalink)
Seasoned Member
 
Patar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Hayward, California

It's true, I can't fight you on that point.

I enjoy speedball in a balanced setting but it's so cut & dry to me. If you play a position, there's really no bending the rules as to what you can do with that. A lot of great stuff is lost in that simplification, even if it adds a more balanced field layout.
__________________
Feedback
Patar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2013, 02:12 AM   #64 (permalink)
Seasoned Member
 
Wraith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Iowa

Brass N Wood Fan
Quote:
Originally Posted by gospeedgo1 View Post
-have better, lighter rentals (gog eNMEy or something similar) than using heavy, inaccurate, loud, kicky, and long Tippmann/BT markers. i hear that complaint very often from rental customers (men, women, and children).
Lighter guns do not hold up nearly as well as Tippy tanks to the kind of beating renters put on guns that aren't theirs.

Rental guns aren't free, fields need to get a lot of use out of them to get a good return on investment.
Wraith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2013, 08:33 AM   #65 (permalink)
pump snob
 
thumper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteout View Post
Lighter guns do not hold up nearly as well as Tippy tanks to the kind of beating renters put on guns that aren't theirs.

Rental guns aren't free, fields need to get a lot of use out of them to get a good return on investment.
Tippys also tolerate neglect from lazy staffers and owners better than most. They are the AK 47 of the game... but what this has to do with the original topic I have no idea.

Want to grow the sport? Focus on growing the game. The sport will follow. Kill the game and you kill the sport...and the game begins with the 10 yr old wanting to play with his friends in a fun safe environment. I think this is where paintball (in general) is loosing focus: players all worried about competition and what to do with the extra testosterone and the stupid kids just get in the way.
__________________
--- pıɐ-ןooʞ ǝɥʇ ʞuıɹp ʇ,uop---
thumper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2013, 12:44 PM   #66 (permalink)
Seasoned Member
 
Wraith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Iowa

Brass N Wood Fan
I was responding specifically to the guy suggesting the eNMEy as rentals. Our local field tried out the Gryphon as a rental as well, and they're just not dirt-simple and overengineered enough to put up with extensive neglect, even with only playing indoors.


As far as growing the sport? The best and biggest thing we can all do as players is turn the testosterone down about 700%, and play to have fun rather than treating paintball with the same toxic bulcrap attitude that comes with the competitive first-person shooter video game.

Sportsmanship is a necessary minimum. 'Whatever you can get away with' seems to be more and more the standard of behavior in a lot of places, and that creates a serious barrier to entry for new players.
Wraith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2013, 01:39 PM   #67 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: SC

I think it's fine right now. The game has purged itself of the false sense of " it's all about the tourneys" and gone back into the woods were it belongs. More players are going back to mech guns and pump and rely less on accuracy by volume. There seems to be less loud mouth tweeners on the field hosing new players and calling everyone fags. We needed to get rid of all that.
Interceptor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2013, 06:06 AM   #68 (permalink)
pump snob
 
thumper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by Interceptor View Post
I think it's fine right now. ...
With all due respect I mostly disagree -
1) the stories of noobie bashing and poor sportsmanship at the average public field have never been higher. Predatory behavior seems strangely somehow acceptable now. I think awareness of the problem may be on the rise but I don't see a fundamental change in what to do about it...other than the novice customers simply taking up other things.

2) Back in the day the games were held on very large fields and very creative as the there were fewer rules and norms. There was much more movement and strategy involved. I think over the years the owners quit paying the refs, and the refs started running games that were easiest on them - and the whole thing got in to a rut... until basically now the norm is small narrow fields full of bunkers where you run 10-20 yards, bunker up and shoot.. and the ref can ref from the side lines in his lazy boy.... (boring and pathetic if you ask me)... The owners were happy because lots of bunkers and shooting = customers needing paint quicker = upsales = better faster guns = more paint = upsales.. (again pathetic if you ask me). Things are not ok. Something important was lost*
(*I salute those who fight to keep the oldways alive).
__________________
--- pıɐ-ןooʞ ǝɥʇ ʞuıɹp ʇ,uop---
thumper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2013, 06:58 AM   #69 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: SC

What you are describing is a direct result of speedball. Here in my area it is all but dead. As far as field staff, some owners care an some don't . I have two fields in my area, one runs a tight ship with refs who are motivated and care. The other one is falling apart, the refs are absolutely worthless, and the games get run by the field bullies who change the rules on the fly to benefit them. What keeps them in business is that they are cheap. Luckily most of the other fields care. At least in my area what you described has pretty much gone away.

As far as creativity in games goes, rate of fire pretty much killed a lot of the games that I used to play. It simply can't be done anymore.
Interceptor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2013, 08:56 AM   #70 (permalink)
Post Whore
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Bronson, FL

I agree that when things started they were on bigger fields and out in the woods...But the idea that fields stopped paying refs and then the volunteers got lazy is not what I recall as much. When I first played in 90 the game was played on larger field out in the woods, but the "refs" that were there were volunteers just as they are today. They were either friends or family that helped out at the field. Usually for nothing or for paint.

And speedball was a natural evolution of the game. That is not to say it is where the sport needs to go, but it is a natural progression of the sport. When things started everyone had pump guns. Then the semi's hit the scene and the sport sped up. And it continued too with the ROF increases in the markers. That is natural.

Field sizes started to drop because owners realized that people naturally head for certain areas on a big field. And when you can advertise that you have 3 fields while your competitors only have 1, you draw more of a crowd. Plus as the sport grew and more than 10-20 people were showing up Saturday morning to play, some with special groups and various levels of experience, there was a natural need to have to break up the groups into smaller groups. This meant you also had to split up your fields. So even though your field was originally 20 acres you now had to break it up into 2 10 acre, or even 4 5 acre fields.

You have to remember that many fields did not have the ability to purchase the property next to them or anything else, so they were in a sense landlocked and had to work with what they had in order to stay competitive.

But what you are talking about as far as using the big fields and getting into the woods is exactly the reason another natural progression of the sport is becoming really popular now and that is scenarios. You are seeing a growth in that industry as they can draw hundreds or even thousands of players to the field for a weekend.

The comments of Speedball not being a spectator sport is true, but then what sport really is? Sure the fans that go to them really enjoy it, look at golf...not a whole lot going on there and quite often if you are a spectator, where you are standing is not in full view of everything anyways, but if you are a fan you are glad to get the view you have. The spectators of a sport are generally the ones that enjoy the sport to begin with.

One thing that really kind hurt speedball early on was technology. Look at football today and the camera work they are able to do in that sport now days. We could not do that 20 years ago. HD camera's have intensified the sport of football and made it a whole new experience to watch at home. If Speedball had that sort of technology available even 10 years ago then it is possible we could have seen better growth of the sport as it would have been more entertaining to view even on television.

I think even today on the woods fields...and with the UWL and similar leagues. Being able to bring the experience to new people through sources like video can do nothing but help the sport out. Video technology is not that expensive now days, placing stationary cameras in the strategic spots on the field. Refs with cameras, and even specific camera operators on the field could help capture the experience, and also allow you to "sell" the days games to people. Advertising spots could be made, youtube utilized and many other avenues of revenue generated.

Plus if the cameras are fed to the spectator area then you have something for people to spectate
Brother Jerry is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

  mcarterbrown.com » Paintball » The Dead Zone

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:39 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO
© MCB Network LLC